The School of Geek

[treehead]

;i'm a long-time lurker, but this is my first post. i have a question to ask you all.

;first, some background....

;i am developing a new website that will center around what could best be called a "geek curriculum." basically we will be developing completely GFDL learning tracks that will start at the newbie level and work their way up into the advanced in various subjects. the following are the tracks that exist currently:

* computing systems (read: PCs)
* unix and linux (as a complete operating system)
* computing standards (read: RFCs; e.g. TCP, IP, DNS, SGML/HTML, XML, 802.11, etc)

;my question for you is this: if you could return to the time/place that you first began learning computers (when you could call yourself a newbie), what kind of "learning program" or "geek school" would you like to have had at your disposal to learn?

;i am looking for specific topics, methods of learning, media, or methodologies that you wish you could have had that would have helped you to learn what you wanted to know. specifically, i am interested in how you would "stack" these up... what *order* would you put them in and how would you teach them? these learning programs could be a part of any of the aforementioned four topics--or suggest any other category you'd like to see.

;my hope is to start an online "geek school" for all those newbies out there, but also to provide tracks that geeks of any level of knowledge to jump onto in order to learn (or teach).

;let me know your thoughts. feel free to e-mail me: t r e e h e a d at g m a i l dot c o m (no spaces, obviously).

;treehead

;p.s. i have "cross-posted" this to TLLTS forum, but i don't think the listener base completely overlaps, so don't flame me for doing so.

[Jetlag]

The bit I've always had the biggest trouble with when learning a new aspect of anything computery is the *really* basic bits. For example, I've been learning a bit of LaTeX recently, and I was using something that had a "mandatory option" or something, that it described as [width], but I couldn't find anywhere that told me what it actually *wanted* in that option, whether it expected a measurement in mm, or if it could be in inches, or if I could tell it "full page width". I find that kind of thing incredibly frustrating because it *should* be easy. It's so bloody obvious to anyone who knows anything about LaTeX that nobody seemed to bother putting any information on it anywhere (I've since figured it out, so no points for finding a document that *does* explain this bit). So I'd like to suggest that in any of the lower level stuff, I highly recommed stating the bloody obvious.

[treehead]

...I highly recommed stating the bloody obvious.

;this is precisely what i'm going for. i have had the exact same situation crop up time and again with all manner of computer topics. i want to start this project as a relative newbie so that i know what those missing (if obvious) points are, and include them.

;cRaig

[Aq]

It's so bloody obvious to anyone who knows anything about LaTeX that nobody seemed to bother putting any information on it anywhere

The French, so I am told, have the lovely phrase "secret de Polichinelle" to describe this, meaning something so obvious that everyone assumes you know it, and thus if you don't know it no-one ever tells you.

The FOSS community is horribly guilty of this at times.

Aq.

[neuro]

why the semi-colons?

[tonytiger]

I was wondering that myself.

[mrben]

I was wondering that myself.

I'm guessing that it was supposed to be a bulleted list....

[GreyArea]

I started out with a TRS-80 Model 1 Level 2 with 16k of memory. This was back in, oooh, about 1982. Upped that to a disk system (TRSDOS was funky). Progressed to a BBC 'B' (best machine ever built, bar none), then to a couple of Archimedes machines. From there I jumped to Mac-land, but I also have a healthy interest in Linux and FreeBSD. Currently I'm trying to build a MAME table powered by FreeBSD (simply because I'm more 'at home' with the BSDs, even though Linux is probably more up to the job here).

Basically self taught but I met my wife in the computer center at Cauldon College in Stoke, so it was useful for something...

Jim

[tonytiger]

I'm guessing that it was supposed to be a bulleted list....

Really? I don't see how

;this is precisely what i'm going for. i have had the exact same situation crop up time and again with all manner of computer topics. i want to start this project as a relative newbie so that i know what those missing (if obvious) points are, and include them.

;cRaig

... is supposed to be a bulleted list.

[treehead]

I'm guessing that it was supposed to be a bulleted list....

Really? I don't see how

;this is precisely what i'm going for. i have had the exact same situation crop up time and again with all manner of computer topics. i want to start this project as a relative newbie so that i know what those missing (if obvious) points are, and include them.

;cRaig

... is supposed to be a bulleted list.

;leave it to me to have a semantic tick (say that 10 times fast!) that is more interesting to the forum than my post. :/

;i get asked this often enough in forums that i had a page on my site explaining it. hmm... doesn't seem to be there anymore. i'm renovating. i found it in google cache though, here you go:

"what's with the semicolons?"

;hope that satisfies your curiosity. there's a line in there that implies that i have no clue why anyone would find this interesting... which in-and-of-itself is a lie, otherwise why would i write an entire page to explain it, right?

;i don't expect americans to understand, but i have faith in the brits (and the scots too).

;cRaig

[mrben]

"what's with the semicolons?"

Evil, mind-twisting bastard

[treehead]

"what's with the semicolons?"

Evil, mind-twisting bastard

;i, like magnatune, am not evil (promise).

;i *am* interested in your input on the whole geek learning topic.

;cRaig

[Gomer_X]

my question for you is this: if you could return to the time/place that you first began learning computers (when you could call yourself a newbie), what kind of "learning program" or "geek school" would you like to have had at your disposal to learn?

You're asking the wrong question. I learned computers on a TRS-80 Model 3 with 48K of memory. The system manuals, a book on BASIC from the 70s, and a book on Z-80 machine language I got for Christmas where my only tools. No one today will learn computers in that setting, so asking what learning plan I would have liked won't bear much fruit.

What would have been great is an interconnected web of computers with free information on every imaginable topic that I could search at my whim. We have that now. There is no shortage of information available for "geek training," the problem is finding what's worthwhile. As I learn I keep track of tutorials and articles I find helpful. Often I'll grab a copy of the site for my own use. Some of it I have on my own site, and I carry an HTML file with me with links to useful learning sites.

I'd say a new information source is not what's needed. What's needed is a resource that points people to the best resources on a topic, and maintains a copy if possible. There are already web sites like that (in abundance), but I haven't found one I like so I maintain my own list.

[GreyArea]

You're asking the wrong question. I learned computers on a TRS-80 Model 3 with 48K of memory.

A Model 3? 48K?! Luxury!

I had to put up with a Model 1 and, later, the Expansion Interface. I didn't even get lower case letters until I splashed out on the lower case conversion kit...

Jim

[treehead]

my question for you is this: if you could return to the time/place that you first began learning computers (when you could call yourself a newbie), what kind of "learning program" or "geek school" would you like to have had at your disposal to learn?

You're asking the wrong question. I learned computers on a TRS-80 Model 3 with 48K of memory. The system manuals, a book on BASIC from the 70s, and a book on Z-80 machine language I got for Christmas where my only tools. No one today will learn computers in that setting, so asking what learning plan I would have liked won't bear much fruit.

;i think that's a bit like saying one can't read a book anymore and gain any useful information. there are certainly many types of learners. you were a lot like the rest of us that learned by the sweat of our brow by studying what few resources we hand and hacking through the rest. however, in the days of the TRS-80, there was no Internet as such (as you have mentioned) and the number of technologies and devices at your diposal was limited. you therefore had the luxury of slogging through your learning process.

;i would argue that today there are easily multiple hundred-fold technologies for the newbie to investigate and learn. i don't think that the best answer is to tell them to "google it."

There is no shortage of information available for "geek training," the problem is finding what's worthwhile.

I'd say a new information source is not what's needed. What's needed is a resource that points people to the best resources on a topic, and maintains a copy if possible. There are already web sites like that (in abundance), but I haven't found one I like so I maintain my own list.

;the very fact that you haven't found one comprehensive, smart resource to your liking is evidence enough to justify the need for and additional (better) resource. and while my idea may not be the next best thing(tm), it is another take, it is different (however slightly is up to debate).

;what i am attempting to do with this project is to forge a double-edged sword: a resource index certainly, but secondly and more importantly a learning path for various technologies, starting from absolute "bloody obvious" to the more advanced. i think there's a need for it, and i think it needs to be free (as in freedom).

;treehead